Still thinking about the scene...negotiation edition
I'm thinking about negotiation in terms of bdsm scenes and it's something of a stretch because i've never done it. The only experience i have outside of Das is with a friend years (over 10 years ago now) who was kinky. I didn't know it had a name or that there was a scene or a "proper" way things should go. He was a friend who I had sex with who liked to bind me, spank me, and role play with sex. No big deal to me at the time I could take it or leave it, it was just friendly sex. So that's the angle I am coming from in the discussion.
With him there was never any negotiation, it was me agreeing to do what he liked because I was comfortable with him and trusted he wouldn't do anything bad to me. I hadn't known him terribly long when we started and I hadn't asked for references although we had a few mutual friends who seemed to like him well enough. I'd observed him interacting with others a few times before talking to him and I got a good vibe off of him. Our tryst all went down at his home privately. My best girlfriend at the time knew where I was but it wasn't called a "safe call" it was called "common sense" lol. Being alone with a not extremely well known person has risks no matter how small and it just seemed judicious to leave knowledge of my where abouts with someone so that if I wasn't present and accounted for in a timely fashion the police would at least have a starting point to look for my body. I wasn't dramatic about it, it was simply the way I'd been taught to handle such situations.
Anyway the idea of negotiating never occurred to me. We didn't sit down and say I like this but that can't happen. Or go through a list of I'm willing to do these things only or things on this list are off limits and everything else is a go. Seems to me that kind of thing leaves a bit of wiggle room for someone who is looking for loopholes. Even if someone isn't being deliberately assholish mistakes in intent can be made because something didn't make it on a list so it could be thought by one party that it was ok when it simply forgotten or not thought of at the moment. That's the thing to me about the whole negotiating, who is able to think of every single thing they do or don't want for every interaction? Maybe other people can but I know I am absent minded in the extreme and am always forgetting this or that. Hell I do it all the time with my grocery list. I come home with things that weren't on the list b/c the moment I laid eyes I them I either remembered we needed it or they looked yummy. And I come home without stuff we need because it didn't make the list and just never jumped in the cart. It isn't until I look in the fridge/cabinet that I realize it's still bereft of said item. How much more often would this happen if I was excited/nervous as would more than likely be the case when setting up a play date.
I guess it goes back to my discomfort with what I see as so much being packaged in the scene as magical thinking. If we do A B & C we will be safe. Life isn't like that, everything has risk and the scene isn't exempt from the rules of life. You look at it, evaluate if the risk are worth it to you and make the best decision you can and hope for the best. Assuming that jumping through intricate hoops will make everyone treat you with respect is naive and naivete when dealing with people can be dangerous. There are people who take great delight in looking for loopholes and justify their behavior when they find them by pointing out they they are in fact playing by the rules of the game that's been laid out. When playing a board game it's annoying but really no harm is done. When our "toys" can leave scars upon our bodies and minds, well maybe it's time to re-evaluate the rules.
With him there was never any negotiation, it was me agreeing to do what he liked because I was comfortable with him and trusted he wouldn't do anything bad to me. I hadn't known him terribly long when we started and I hadn't asked for references although we had a few mutual friends who seemed to like him well enough. I'd observed him interacting with others a few times before talking to him and I got a good vibe off of him. Our tryst all went down at his home privately. My best girlfriend at the time knew where I was but it wasn't called a "safe call" it was called "common sense" lol. Being alone with a not extremely well known person has risks no matter how small and it just seemed judicious to leave knowledge of my where abouts with someone so that if I wasn't present and accounted for in a timely fashion the police would at least have a starting point to look for my body. I wasn't dramatic about it, it was simply the way I'd been taught to handle such situations.
Anyway the idea of negotiating never occurred to me. We didn't sit down and say I like this but that can't happen. Or go through a list of I'm willing to do these things only or things on this list are off limits and everything else is a go. Seems to me that kind of thing leaves a bit of wiggle room for someone who is looking for loopholes. Even if someone isn't being deliberately assholish mistakes in intent can be made because something didn't make it on a list so it could be thought by one party that it was ok when it simply forgotten or not thought of at the moment. That's the thing to me about the whole negotiating, who is able to think of every single thing they do or don't want for every interaction? Maybe other people can but I know I am absent minded in the extreme and am always forgetting this or that. Hell I do it all the time with my grocery list. I come home with things that weren't on the list b/c the moment I laid eyes I them I either remembered we needed it or they looked yummy. And I come home without stuff we need because it didn't make the list and just never jumped in the cart. It isn't until I look in the fridge/cabinet that I realize it's still bereft of said item. How much more often would this happen if I was excited/nervous as would more than likely be the case when setting up a play date.
I guess it goes back to my discomfort with what I see as so much being packaged in the scene as magical thinking. If we do A B & C we will be safe. Life isn't like that, everything has risk and the scene isn't exempt from the rules of life. You look at it, evaluate if the risk are worth it to you and make the best decision you can and hope for the best. Assuming that jumping through intricate hoops will make everyone treat you with respect is naive and naivete when dealing with people can be dangerous. There are people who take great delight in looking for loopholes and justify their behavior when they find them by pointing out they they are in fact playing by the rules of the game that's been laid out. When playing a board game it's annoying but really no harm is done. When our "toys" can leave scars upon our bodies and minds, well maybe it's time to re-evaluate the rules.
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